Upgraded Intel Midrange Platform
If we had to choose one system as an overall recommendation today, it would have to be this upgraded Core 2 Duo configuration. There are almost no compromises made, and without spending significantly more money it will be difficult to improve performance. As usual, the one exception is gaming, where a faster, more expensive GPU is almost always a possibility. Below is our upgraded Intel recommendation.
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As with the AMD platform, our upgraded Intel system has moved up one rung on the performance ladder. Moving from the E6300 to the E6400 represents a 14% CPU speed increase, and it comes with a 23% price increase. Bang for the buck is actually better than the AMD upgrade, but there are other advantages as well. The base clock speed is now 2.13 GHz with an 8X multiplier. Clock speeds of beyond 3 GHz should now be achievable, with a 400 MHz front side bus equating to a 3.2 GHz CPU. Even without overclocking, the E6400 is no slouch, generally offering performance that falls somewhere between that of the Athlon X2 4600+ and 5000+. With overclocking, the E6400 at 3.0 GHz appears to be out of reach of anything AMD can offer with their current architecture and process technology, all at a price of about $225.
You could upgrade to 4MB of cache and 2.4 GHz for another $90 if you so desire, and there are various reasons to do so. The increased clock speed will improve performance about 12%, and the larger L2 cache will on average add another 5% to performance - assuming nothing else is your bottleneck - for a total speed increase of about 18%. The price increase is 41% however, so you are essentially getting 1-for-2 performance scaling. If you are more concerned with CPU performance, the E6600 is a nice upgrade; for gamers you would be much better off spending the money on a faster GPU.
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For the upgraded configuration, we still couldn't go with a super high-end motherboard, but we did upgrade to a motherboard that should offer some great overclocking potential. The Gigabyte GA-965P-S3 first showed up in our labs as a pretty mediocre offering, but with the latest BIOS updates it has turned into a real gem. The Gigabyte DS3 will still overclock a bit better in terms of maximum bus speed, but you're much more likely to run into the limitations of your memory and/or processor first. 400 MHz bus speeds are easily achievable on the S3, and a 3.2 GHz Core 2 Duo processor is extremely fast. Note that you do only get a single X16 graphics slot, so if you want more gaming performance you will have to resort to something like the 7950 GX2 cards or wait for faster models to arrive on the market.
Again, we've already looked at the memory and video card options with the upgraded AMD configuration, so let's move on to the storage and other components. We stuck with the NEC ND-3550A DVD-RW drive for all of the reasons we listed previously and we also kept the same mouse, keyboard, and operating system to keep things simple. On the hard drive, we make the upgrade to a slightly larger 320GB model that supports 16MB of cache and comes with a five year warranty from Seagate. Western Digital, Samsung, Maxtor, and Hitachi are again competitive with slightly varying features and performance.
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Where we made a big change over the baseline configuration is the choice of case and power supply. Opinions on cases are going to vary widely from person to person. What one person thinks looks awesome another person is going to think looks garish; slick and sleek for us might be dull and boring for you. The Thermaltake Soprano is a nice looking case, at least in our opinion, and you get two 120mm fans that provide a good amount of air flow without creating a ton of noise. The case also features a mostly tool-less design, and you can get it with or without a side window. If you don't like the case that we picked, by all means go out and select a case that you do like. Sticking with the baseline case is certainly an option to save money, although the power supply is a different matter.
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While we still haven't created a configuration that really needs an extremely high-end power supply, if you are going to spend money for a quality aftermarket power supply there's no reason to save $10-$15 and miss out on some features that might prove useful in the long run. Fotron Source is one of the most well-regarded power supply manufacturers, and several well-known power supply providers basically offer rebranded Fotron Source PSUs. We did have to draw the line somewhere, so you won't see is recommending $150+ power supplies for a midrange computer. We ended up settling on the 550W SLI ready FSP550-80GLC, which offers plenty of power, relatively silent operation, and it's ready for multiple graphics cards should you ever decide to take that step.
If you only intend to run a single GPU and you aren't going to overclock, many of our upgrade options could easily be changed. The RAM in particular was chosen to really allow some overclocking headroom, but you could stick with the cheaper RAM and instead simply buy a faster CPU. Getting a good quality PSU is rarely a bad decision, but for non-overclockers you can stick with a bundled PSU of around 400W and you shouldn't have problems. In the end, we are limited in the number of configurations we can list due to time constraints, but by all means feel free to ask or comment on the component choices, as there is no "one size fits all" computer system.
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thart - Friday, October 13, 2006 - link
1. The DDR-2 Memory has gone up in price and now costs considerably more than standard DDR. DDR-2 adds absolutely zero in performance to any AMD system. Therefore the best value by a considerable margin remains Socket 939 and standard DDR.2. This Mad Rush to Dual Core is insane. There is practically zero difference in everyday performance. Almost no applications yet exist to really take advantage of it. A 1.8 GHz Athlon-64 3000 Single Core costs $55 for the retail box. The least expensive 2.0 GHz Athlon-64 3800 Dual Core costs $164.00 for the retail box. The actual difference in performance of these two is very small and certainly not worth 3 times as much!
3. The nVidia 6150 chipset based Micro Boards are the best I have ever seen. They include Gig Net, Firewire, SATA II 3.0, Raid, S Video Out, Dual Monitor support, splendid 7.1 Audio, and the best on-board Video anyone has ever seen. How one can possibly justify twice as much for the full size MOBO - plus another $100, or more, for a decent Video Card, is hard for me to understand.
4. The Rosewill Towers and Power Supplies cost a fraction of what Anand recommends. The Rosewill PS'es are just fine and the towers are the easiest to work in and have more bays than any of the ones they recommend, or that I have ever used before.
5. The NEC DVD Writers are great if you run only Doze. But they DO NOT work on any Linux system. Recently purchased a Retail Box NEC and received no cable(s) whatsoever, no DVD Software Decoder - just NERO 7 OEM. The Retail Box Lite-On DVD Writers with Lite-Scribe are better choices, I think.
6. Few folks need the Media Center OS. Only advantage I see is if you do install and use a Radio/TV Tuner/Capture card - which almost no one does. Not a thing wrong with plain old $89 Doze XP Home OEM for 99% of users. Nothing in the PRO Version that I need here either.
Sure wish someone would explain to me why I should spend well over 3 times as much for a Dual Core Socket AM2 than the more than adequate Socket 939 Single Core choices?
MadBadger - Sunday, October 8, 2006 - link
Hi,Just wanted to thank you folks at Anandtech for the guide. Perfect timing and extremely useful. I do have some questions though. I'm planning on building my first computer and I was hoping you could give me some advice. This is what I'm looking to get out of my next system and the tentative system that I put together:
1) Usage – Other than office-type tasks I’ll be using it for photo editing (hobby) and gaming (occasionally). I like all types of games (fps to rpg) as long as they’re entertaining. I probably won’t be gaming all that much, but when I do game I like to be able to enjoy most of what it has to offer. I’m tired of the slide shows.
2) Upgradeability – I’m looking for a system that’s fairly future proof (good for at least 2-4 years).
3) Reliability – The most important trait for me. The last thing that I want to deal with is an unstable system.
System build:
Processor Core 2 Duo E6400 (775 - 2.13 GHz 2048K)
$220.00
Motherboard Intel 975x D975XBXLKR
$227.00
Memory ???
Video Card Sapphire Radeon X1900GT 256MB
$195.99
Sound Card X-fi XtremeMusic
$120.00
Hard Drive Seagate 3.0Gbps 320GB 7200RPM 16MB Barracuda 7200.10
$95.00
Optical Drive NEC ND-3550A 16X DVD+/-RW
$28.99
Display Samsung 971P 19-inch LCD Monitor
$329.99
Case APEVIA (ASPIRE) X-CRUISER-BK Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
$59.99
Power Supply OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply 100 - 240 V
$124.99
Bottom Line $1,401.95 - shipping - memory
Since I’m looking for stability and reliability, I don’t plan on doing much, if any, overclocking.
With that in mind, do you think it’s worth $60 to upgrade the video card to an XT?
I’ve also been debating upgrading the processor to an E6600. Honestly though, that’s probably more than I really need.
Also, I’m clueless as to what type of memory I should get. I’m looking for the cheapest memory that’s stable and reliable (preferably with a good warranty). Any recommendations?
Any general advice for someone about to build their first computer?
Cheers and hope you can help!
p.s. I know that your mobo round up is coming later next week, but I'm such an impatient person. Given what I'm looking for, do you recommend a different mobo?
khenderson - Monday, October 9, 2006 - link
Jarred, as a follow up to MadBagder, let me nuiance the memory question a bit. (You've already helped me once on this thread regarding the PSU.) I'm following your guide and planning to upgrade to something like the x1900XT. I'm not interested in headroom for future upgrades and I'm aiming at moderate overclocking (2.9-3.2) using only the stock intel fan. Anyway, it sounds like MadBadger and I are going for very similiar systems.Reviewing some overclocking basics, if my FSB is overclocked to 400 and I'm using DDR-800, and I'm using base timings, then I'm not really overclocking the memory at all. Correct? In that case can't I just go with the cheapest (name brand) DDR-800? Also, keeping my hardware in mind, it is correct to assume that the performance increase from 5-5-5 to 4-4-4 isn't very sigificant? I ask because I'm trying to determine if it's worth OCing the memory or paying a little more for beter timings.
Further up the thead you recommend OCZ-667 over OCZ-800 because the 800 is considered a poor overclocker. (BTW, thanks for the voltage tips) If I'm looking to run the memory at no more 800 max (FSB400X2), then does this change your recommendation in any way? Along those lines, is the OCZ-667 known to be pretty stable overclocked to 800? I'll probably upgrade in 2-3 years and I really don't want to worry about the ram burning out in a pc case with stock cooling. That said, newegg is running a sale on OCZ right now. Unless there's some surprise recomendation worth waiting for in the next guide, I think I'm ready to buy. $25 isn't a huge difference. Which way would you lean?
OCZ GOLD 2GB 667 (4-4-4-12) - $195 (shipped, after rebates)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...
OCZ GOLD 2GB 800 (5-5-5-12) - $220 (shipped, after rebates)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...
(S.O.E. sticks are similiarly priced but I'm assuming the Gold heatspreader is superior)
One thing I like about your guide is that you've done a good job giving us a good bang-for-buck recommendation. Sure you could break guides up into several categories as some have suggested, but when the overclocking is straight forward and offers a significant increase in performance, I think it's prudent to include it. Considering there haven't been a lot of other guides recently, this well rounded guide hit the spot very well.
Ken
PS: I think you've got a small typo on Page 5 regarding E6400 speed "The base clock speed is now 2.16 GHz with an 8X multiplier." Should be 2.13.
JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - link
I don't know if either of you saw my latest high-end buyers guide that was published a couple days ago, but if you take some of the information in that guide combined with this guide, and then throw in some of the information from Wesley Fink's memory reviews, that might help out a bit with trying to figure out what to purchase. That said, let me address a few points.First, the prices on the E6600 have dropped quite a bit in the last month or so, finally putting it at a price that you can reasonably consider for an upgrade. The larger L2 cache can improve performance by anywhere from 5-15%, depending on the application you're running. It also comes with a higher clock speed, so you end up with a CPU that's anywhere from 18-30% faster, even without overclocking. The CPU also costs about 50% more ($100 more), but it's still a reasonable option.
In terms of motherboards, MadBadger indicates he's considering the Intel BadAxe motherboard. It's not a terrible motherboard, but honestly I would get the ASUS P5W DH over any other 975X motherboard, and the fact that it has the same price as the Intel BadAxe makes it a no-brainer. Even if you don't plan on overclocking, the ASUS motherboard is much better in my book.
Figuring out which memory to get is very difficult right now. It is true that you can use a one-to-one ratio and overclock pretty far, although with an E6300 or E6400 even a 400 MHz front side bus is likely going to limit your CPU overclock. (One more reason to get the E6600.) For tasks like image editing, definitely get 2 GB of memory. Beyond that, timings don't make a huge difference, as the court to architecture seems to do a good job of mitigating any impact of memory performance. The only thing to note is that DDR2-800 memory that is rated at CL4 will very often overclock to DDR2-1000, whereas the CL5 memory usually won't get past DDR2-900 (if that).
The http://labs.anandtech.com/alllinks.php?pfilter=197...">OCZ PC-6400 2x1024MB EL Gold is not the most compatible memory around -- some motherboards will simply refuse to POST with it -- but it shouldn't have any problems in the ASUS P5W DH, and with the current price + rebate it's probably your best bet right now in terms of value+performance. Part of the reason I didn't recommend it in this midrange guide is because it has more problems running with P965 motherboards than it does with 975X motherboards (as far as I'm aware).
Finally, in regards to graphics cards, ATI should be launching their Radeon X1950 Pro towards the end of this month. http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=4472">DailyTech has some details, and it looks set to offer better price/performance than the X1900 XT 256MB. It's not faster in all cases, and in fact it's often slower, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does better in CrossFire performance. Besides, it uses less power and it's a single slot design, and it will probably continue to be in production for longer than the X1900 class GPUs (which are probably all going to start shifting to X1950 cards I would bet).
If you aren't averse to getting something other than ATI hardware -- recognizing that if you're using an Intel 975X or P965 chipset and are ever going to consider dual graphics cards, then you will want stick with ATI for now -- the new release of the NVIDIA 7900 GTO is a great value. A little bit of overclocking and you may be able to match 7900 GTX performance, for about two thirds the cost. I think right now that ATI has superior hardware available, but NVIDIA still has the better drivers and dual graphics card solution (RV570 addresses the second shortcoming, however).
Hopefully that covers all of the questions you two had. If not, you can always e-mail me back -- I don't tend to pay much attention to my articles' comment sections after a couple weeks. :-)
MadBadger - Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - link
Hi Jarred, thanks for the reply! Lots of useful information. I have some more questions for you though. Hopefully you give this article another look sometime today, but I'll drop it in your mailbox as well.First of all, thanks again for the info, it cleared up a lot of the uncertainty that I had. In particular, I think I'm doing ok with the whole memory situation. Let me run it by you though, and please correct me whenever I’m incorrect.
This is my understanding of the issues with Conroe chips and the choice of memory:
Basically, all Intel chips are "quad pumped". What this means is that data is transmitted 4 times for each clock cycle. When the Conroe chips say that their FSB = 1066 Mhz, that's an effective rate. The actual rate of the FSB = 1066 Mhz/4 = 266 Mhz.
The case is similar with memory. DDR memory stands for “Double Data Rate” memory. This basically means that DDR memory is “double pumped”. In this case, data is transmitted 2 times for each clock cycle. Therefore, when DDR memory is operating at 800 Mhz, that is the effective rate. The actual rate of the DDR memory = 800 Mhz/2 = 400 Mhz.
Furthermore, for performance purposes, the Conroe chips seem to operate well (optimally?) when the FSB is synchronized with the memory speed (i.e. a 1:1 FSB:Memory ratio). So, if you want a 1:1 ratio, then the actual speed of your FSB = 266 Mhz, needs to equal the actual speed of your Memory = 266 Mhz. Using a 1:1 ratio:
FSB Speed x CPU Multiplier = CPU Speed
Using this equation, we can calculate the CPU Multiplier for each Conroe chip since we know the native FSB Speed of each chip = 266 Mhz (266.5 really, but approx. 266) and each individual CPU Speed. For example, with the e6400, which has a native CPU Speed of 2130 Mhz, the CPU Multiplier = CPU Speed / FSB Speed => 2130 Mhz/266 Mhz = 8. So, the multipliers for the Conroe chips are as follows:
e6300 = 7
e6400 = 8
e6600 = 9
e6700 = 10
e6800 = 11
The multiplier is basically how many times faster the CPU is set to operate over the FSB (e.g. the e6300 is set to operate 7 times faster than the FSB, the e6400 8 times etc.)
With this information, we can determine potential bottlenecks of the system. For example, in khenderson’s case where he wants to overclock the actual FSB Speed to 400 Mhz, using a CPU Multiplier of 8 (for the e6400), the theoretical max CPU Speed is 400 Mhz x b8=3.2Ghz. With the same FSB Speed, the theoretical max CPU Speed for the e6600 = 400 Mhz x 9 = 3.6 Ghz (which is why you suggest evaluating an upgrade to an e6600, since it looks like the FSB will be the limiting factor for max CPU Speed. I remember reading an article that mentioned motherboard instability around 495 Mhz FSB for an ASUS board [P5B Deluxe?])
If he wants to push his system past 3.2 Ghz he either needs to increase the FSB Speed or he needs to increase the CPU Multiplier. However, in this case, the actual FSB Speed (400 Mhz) = the actual Max Memory Speed (800 Mhz / 2). Therefore, unless he can up the CPU multiplier, he will need to overclock his memory speed. So, unless you want to push your system past this theoretical limit without increasing the CPU multiplier (or being able to increase the CPU multiplier), you don’t need to purchase RAM that is good for overclocking.
Since there are so many different motherboards, sticks of memory, and processors, the sheer number of potential combinations is tremendous. This makes choosing the right type of RAM, mobo and processor so important. Certain combinations just work better than others.
…Right?
Apologies for the super in depth explanation, I just want to make sure that my train of thought is correct.
Assuming that what I wrote is correct, just out of curiosity, which variables alter the voltage of the system (and therefore the temperature)?
Ok, moving on to my other questions (I hope you’re not banging your head against your monitor yet!)
About the motherboard, how reliable is ASUS and how good is their support? I don’t know anyone else that’s in to computers, so all I have to base my opinion on are sites like http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">Newegg">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82... where people post their experiences with the products. From what I’ve gathered, it just seems like the http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp...">Intel board">http://www.newegg.com/Product/CustratingReview.asp... is reliable, stable and has good support. It seems to just “work”. For me, those are the most important deciding factors for a motherboard purchase.
I realize that user reviews aren’t always the best gauge for determining a product’s usefulness, but typically when there are enough reviews, you can get a general sense for “the real picture”.
My last question has to do with timing and pricing. I was hoping you could give me your point of view on my current plans for building this system. First of all, here’s my new build:
Processor Core 2 Duo E6600 (775 - 2.4 GHz 2048K)
$315.00
Motherboard Intel 975x D975XBXLKR *possibly ASUS P5W DH*
$227.00
Memory CORSAIR XMS2 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit [Ordered]
$230.00
Video Card Sapphire Radeon X1900XT 256MB *possibly 1950 pro*
$230 (?) or $250
Primary HDD Western Digital Raptor WD740ADFD 74GB 10,000 RPM
$150.00
Secondary HDD Western Digital Caviar RE2 WD5000YS 500GB 7200 RP
$170.00
Optical Drive NEC ND-3550A 16X DVD+/-RW
$28.99
Case Silver Ultra Aluminus case [Ordered]
$40.00
Power Supply OCZ GameXStream OCZ700GXSSLI ATX12V 700W Power Supply 100 - 240 V [Ordered]
$105.00
Total = $1516
Biggest changes are losing the sound card and display (decided to keep using my trusty GDM – 400 PS) and diverting those funds towards better storage and a better CPU.
I plan on using the Raptor as the primary drive (for speedier day-to-day performance) and the RE2 for storage.
A question about the RE2. I know that it’s meant for a RAID setup, and because of the TLER (time-limited error recovery) feature of the drive, WD doesn’t recommend it to be used as a single drive (due to an increased potential for data corruption). But, I read a review that stated that WD told them TLER can be disabled. Do you know if this true? If so, is there any other reason not to get it? The price per GB is $0.34 and the performance results that I’ve seen have been pretty impressive. It’s also quiet as a cat.
The last question is of the “your best guess” variety. I read that Bad Axe 2 is due out soon, most likely at the same time as Kentfield. Currently, it’s rumored that this will happen in mid November. If I waited until then, how much do you think I could save on the CPU, Motherboard (if I decide to go with the Bad Axe 1), and the GPU (do you think this will drop within that time frame)?
Wow, crapload of questions, and way longer than I planned, apologies. Hopefully you're still awake and able to help me out. :) I can see the light at the end of the tunnel!
khenderson - Friday, September 29, 2006 - link
Thanks Mr.Walton for this guide as it's just the kind of thing I've been waiting for.I'm planning to follow the recommendations pretty closely aiming at an OC range of 2.9 - 3.2. I'm a gamer, so as suggested I'll probably look to step the 1900GT to a X1900XT 256MB or something around there, prices permitting. Beyond that I want to use the stock fan, have no intention of running SLI, and I'm not interested in leaving room for future upgrades. Finally I'm planning to use an off-board sound card and two hard drives. All this considered, might a 550watt PSU be overkill? I ask in part because I'm interested in Antec's P-150 case that comes with only a 430watt PSU. On the other hand I think the specs on the 1900XT call for a 450watt PSU even for non-SLI use. I don't care about case cosmetics, but I don't want any cooling worries when OCed to around 3 Ghz and of course quieter is better. I'm assuming I'll need the memory speed & quality recommended by the guide, but I was hoping to save a little cash on the case/PSU and put that towards a better graphics card. Any advice appreciated.
Antec P-150 Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...
JarredWalton - Sunday, October 1, 2006 - link
The Antec cases are good, but not so much their PSUs. Even the best Antec PSUs today seem to be inferior to many other similarly priced brands - popularity has led to lower quality apparently. Two years ago, I wouldn't have hesitated to recommend Antec PSUs; today, I'd go with a similar wattage Fotron Source, Enermax, Seasonic, OCZ, etc.Seasonic is widely regarded as one of the best PSUs, with their 330W generally being better than something like and Antec 450W. They are also very quiet, and efficiency is as high as 85% (compared to 70-75% on many competing brands)... but they're no cheaper than the 550W FSP I listed. :|
I picked up a Sunbeam NUUO 550W a while back and it's still running strong (with SLI even!), and they're a bit less than the FSP I listed. You could most likely drop to a 450W decent quality model and be fine.
jonp - Monday, October 2, 2006 - link
The question of power supplies is interesting and so is the answer. Back in http://www.anandtech.com/guides/showdoc.aspx?i=275...">Pre-AM2 Mid-Range Buyers' Buide, May 2006 you had very warm words for the Enermax ELT400AWT 400 watt. It lists on Newegg now for $79.99 while the Fotron FSP550 is $112.99. If 550 watts isn't a requirement, would you still recommend the ELT400AWT? Although the Seasonic S12-330 is $59.00 at Newegg so maybe the additional 70 watts aren't worth the additional $20.99 in cost -- or do I have the wrong Seasonic unit? With memory prices rising so rapidly, one has to look at saving expenses in all of the other components without making too many sacrifices in performance, quality, reliability etc. I like the price, and your comments on quietness and efficiency of the Seasonic unit...JarredWalton - Tuesday, October 3, 2006 - link
There are other places to shop besides Newegg! ;)http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=PS-FS550GC">$88 plus shipping
I would at least consider the Seasonic S12 330W over the Enermax 400W. Unfortunately, the next step up on Seasonic S12 is the $77 380W. Almost $20 more for an extra 50W - as bad as CPU scaling! Somewhat interesting that 500W to 550W is only $10 more, though both are too expensive. Then again...
http://www.3gplaza.com/estore/control/Computer3G/p...">S12 430W for $81 is a good deal - I'd say that's the equal of the 500W PSUs for sure, maybe even the FSP 550W (but without SLI support).
khenderson - Monday, October 2, 2006 - link
Thank you, that clears things up for me on the PSUs. As for the P-150 I was able to find it sold without the PSU, under the name SOLO with a new paint job. They did some good sound dampening with this case, but compared to the Soprano you suggest it lacks fans in size and number so I'm leaning toward the P-180 although I heard it's a bit noisey. (I wanted more sound damping than the Soprano and I don't like the top mounted interfaces, otherwise the fan layout and basic design seem ideal). Anyway, my last question is, as a general rule do you think I'll need at least 3 fans to provide enough cooling to match the hardware and OCing recommended in your article?Thanks for the advice. Looking forward to future articles by you.
Ken
Antec Solo case (P-150 w/face lift)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...
Antec P-180 Case
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82...