Weekly Buyer's Guide: High End System - April 2004
by Evan Lieb on April 30, 2004 12:05 AM EST- Posted in
- Guides
Memory
Recommendation: 2 X 512MB Mushkin PC3500 Level One Dual Pack (CAS2)Price: $239 shipped
While companies like Corsair, OCZ and now Kingston are heavy favorites among high end memory consumers, Mushkin is also starting to gain favor rapidly. In the last few months, we've been using OCZ's Platinum modules as the standard for a majority of AnandTech's testbeds, but we have also been using Mushkin Level One memory (mostly Level II, actually). Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to find dual packs nowadays, but Mushkin Level One Dual Packs are available at large vendors like Axion and Newegg, so they're still out there. We've been able to do lots of testing with these specific PC3500 modules and they indeed run stably at PC3500 (433MHz DDR) on many currently available motherboards. There are many PC3500 modules that aren't capable of reliable DDR433 speeds on popular motherboards, so be wary. But motherboards such as the ASUS K8V Deluxe and ABIT IC7-G will run these modules very well, so we suggest that you take a look at them when purchasing your motherboard. However, don't get confused. PC3500 is not an officially sanctioned JEDEC spec, and therefore there are no motherboards on the market which can claim that they officially support PC3500 speeds. PC3500 is quite easily attainable with modern motherboards, but just be aware that PC3200, not PC3500, is the highest speed that your motherboard manufacturer will officially support under warranty.
Alternative: 2 X 512MB OCZ PC3700 GOLD Revision 2 (CAS2.5)
Price: $269 shipped
After developing a reputation based on shoddy business practices, not to mention shoddy memory, OCZ has come roaring back and has gained wide acceptance among enthusiasts and average users alike after many months of wary purchasing and close inspection by hardware web sites like AnandTech. We've raved about OCZ modules in many reviews over the last few months (like this one), and have been extremely pleased with the results that we've been getting. OCZ modules have gone from disappointing and unreliable to impressive and dependable in what seems like an overnight transformation. OCZ still has a ways to go to gain acceptance among doubters who have never tried their memory or continue to hold onto conspiracy theories about their link to the OCZ of old, but we aren't placing OCZ's GOLD Rev. 2 PC3700 modules as an alternative pick based on whim, so take that to heart. The GOLD series is capable of a "low" latency of CAS2.5 (CAS 2.5-3-3-7) at DDR466 speeds (PC3700) and has a huge ceiling for overclockers. If you're not an overclocker, then obviously the GOLD series will not be of much value to you. If you are overclocking, just remember that you take a risk by overclocking your memory, both in terms of voiding warranties and damaging hardware. Beginners need not apply for overclocking.
Video
Recommendation: 128MB PowerColor Radeon 9800 Pro, DVI, TV-outPrice: $206 shipped
Our last high end guide stated that one of our new goals was to bring down the price of our system a bit, as it was getting excessively expensive. Thankfully, we accomplished that goal in our last high end guide and will continue to do so in this guide. Anyway, since it's a well known fact that there is very little difference in performance between the 9800 Pro and 9800XT, we think it's quite reasonable to recommend the 9800 Pro for this high end guide. It's not the fastest video card on the market, something you would expect AnandTech to recommend for a high end guide, but it's darn close and it's over $200 less than the 9800XT. Taking all of this data into account, we simply can't recommend the 9800XT. However, it is a reasonable alternative for a high end system.
If you've kept up to date on your GPU technology recently, you would have caught our review of NVIDIA's GeForce 6800 Ultra, among many other reviews around the net. This is the kind of card that we want to recommend for a high end system. It offers vastly superior performance, image quality, and features compared to the Radeon 9800 Pro and Radeon 9800XT, and is truly a "next generation" product. ATI also has a next generation video card in the works, results of which we will release in the coming days/weeks. But for now, just realize that we are recommending the 9800 Pro simply as an interim solution to NVIDIA and ATI's next generation video cards. If you absolutely cannot wait 2-3 weeks for these next generation NVIDIA/ATI cards to be released, then you will want to purchase that 9800 Pro now. If you can wait, then you are opening yourself up to a significantly better graphics experience.
Alternative: 256MB PowerColor Radeon 9800XT (412MHz), DVI, TV-out
Price: $409 shipped
As we mentioned in previous guides, ATI continues to hold a firm grasp on the add-in desktop video market. While ATI's lead is quite noticeable at the low end and fairly noticeable with the mid-range sector, their lead at the high end isn't quite as drastic. It's still there, as even AnandTech has concluded that the 9800XT is more or less the fastest desktop gaming GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) currently available. Still, NVIDIA's 5950 Ultra trails the 9800XT closely (more on the 5950 in a moment) enough in current games in terms of speed and IQ (image quality), it's pretty clear that the 9800XT is the superior high end product. That's why we recommend it today, with the manufacturer PowerColor, yet again. With this card, you get DVI (if you have an LCD), TV-out, and 256MB of memory. The 256MB of memory will come in really handy with future DX9 titles, though not for quite some time. Overall, you're getting an incredible gaming card here. Just be wary that next generation NVIDIA and ATI cards are literally right around the corner, and that spending $400 on a 9800XT is probably the least sensible thing to do if you can wait a few weeks.
Finally, as we've reiterated several times in other Buyer's Guides, do not purchase 9800SE video cards. They perform on par or, in most cases, slower than a 9600 Pro in 3D games and cost closer to a 9700 Pro. Do not be fooled; a 9800SE performs nothing like a full blown 8 pipe 256 bit memory interface 9800 Pro.
Listed below is part of our RealTime pricing engine, which lists the lowest prices available on ATI video cards from many different reputable vendors:
If you cannot find the lowest prices on the products that we've recommended on this page, it's because we don't list some of them in our RealTime pricing engine. Until we do, we suggest that you do an independent search online at the various vendors' web sites. Just pick and choose where you want to buy your products by looking for a vendor located under the "Vendor" heading.
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Murst - Thursday, May 6, 2004 - link
I am looking to build a new system, and I have used this article for a lot of guidance. However, some points I disagreed with. Here is what I have come up with. The case I'm not too sure about yet, as there are also many great choices from other top manufacturers. This does not include a monitor, and I will be looking for an LCD with a fast response time (something good for gaming). Sorry if I left out anything. The prices include shipping.Processor
AMD Athlon 64 3400+
404
newegg.com
Motherboard
MSI|VIA K8T800 K8T NEO-FIS2R
126
newegg.com
Heatsink
Thermalright SLK-948U
43
newegg.com
CPU Fan
Vantec Tornado
15
newegg.com
Power Supply
Antec TruePower 550W
106
newegg.com
Case
Cooler Master Wave Master
153
newegg.com
1 GB RAM
OCZ Gold Revision 2 (2x512)
284
computerhq.com
Sound Card
Sound Blaster Audigy 2
76
newegg.com
Graphics Card
ATI X800XT
500
not out yet
Speakers
Logitech Z-5300 5.1 THX
153
newegg.com
Hard Drive 1
WD Raptor 10k RPM 74GB
215
newegg.com
Hard Drive 2
Seagate SATA 160 GB 7200 RPM
122
newegg.com
DVD RW
NEC 8x DVD RW #2500a
87
newegg.com
Total:
$2284
cK-Gunslinger - Tuesday, May 4, 2004 - link
D'oh! Looks like I missed the boat on this one. Where have I been the past 3-4 days?Anyway, this is a pretty good guide, but I agree with quite a few of the other posts here. I keep up with my own system guides just for kicks, and they have always pretty much mirrored Anand's. The biggest differences seem to be in Storage and Monitors.
With harddrives so cheap today, why do we still recommend only a single drive? You can get quite a bit of performance increase as well as flexibility by simply exploring multi-drive options. Yes, you may increase the total cost of the system by $100-200 dollars, but you'd probably be better off than you would by jumping up to those $250 speakers you recommend.
Also, I know these systems are primarily used for gaming, so CRTs are rather entrenched, but good LCDs such as the Dell 2001FP work beautifully for games as well as general desktop usage. Again, this adds to the total cost, but if you are going to be staring at your monitor for hours per day, a 1600x1200 LCD with 16ms response will be easy on the eyes.
Again, I know these guides are highly subjective, but you've done a pretty good job keeping things in order. I just wish you'd be a little more willing to experiment and explore other options. Keep up the good work!
cbcphotog - Monday, May 3, 2004 - link
1) You made several changes in your latest guide but didn't give any explanation. I'd be interested in knowing why...... The motherboard for the AMD 64 changed from the ASUS K8V Deluxe to the MSI K8T Neo-FIS2R?
... The alternate monitor from the Phillips 202P45 to the ViewSonic P225F?
2) I'm also wondering why you chose the NEC2500A optical drive for this system instead of the NU Tech DDW-082 that recently received you editors choice award.
Thanks.
NordicNINE - Monday, May 3, 2004 - link
There doesn't seem to be many CRT reviews lately. Esp for larger models. I'm looking to get a 21-22". I do play games a few times a week and every other week or so, I play games all night, so I want something that works very well for games, but mainly I want something with razor sharp text. I know that aperture grill monitors have brighter colors, etc but they have lower quality text than a good invar shadow mask. So, would the 1100df be a good choice? I was thinking of the NEC 22" Diamondtron monitors but again I'm worried about the text quality and it seems that anytime you see monitors setup somewhere they're running some stupid looping demo that doesn't show text AND they run through some crappy splitter so all the monitors look bad.Philotic - Monday, May 3, 2004 - link
I second, third, fifth, eighty-seventh...whatever the hard drive recommendation, but my real question is who only uses one hard drive for storage? I personally store my important data on multiple hard drives based on the type of data. I wouldn't store important information on the same drive as my operating system, that's madness! I would use a WD74Gb Raptor as the OS drive because of speed, but I would only use Seagate drives for storage. I also disagree with the speaker selection; I would recommend the Logitech Z-680s or the Creative Gigaworks 7.1s, perhaps the updated high-end Klipsch Promedia 5.1. Video card? I think everyone agrees that this is a poor time to purchase a video card but the guide must go on!Mackintire - Sunday, May 2, 2004 - link
Evan Lieb,Looks like you saw a couple of my posts. I suggested that Seagates 7200.7 drive would be a better drive. Yes, I frequently visit SR. But as someone who orders near 50+ HD's a month I can tell you my personal experience. With 10 hour a day operating time. I have near 70% of our WD based drives have displayed bearing disfunction, by either failing or grinding within a 6 month period. None of the Seagate 7200.7 series drives we have used have failed so far. We currently have a smaller percentage of Seagate 7200.7 drives in the field. And 3 sets of 30 are over the 6 month point with no apparent problems.
The 7200.7's appear to be slightly faster in general use. I personally own both types of drives and can confirm the Seagate 7200.7 is quieter and runs cooler then the WD 120g JB. This is again my experience.
Thank you for your response.
Mackintire
Mackintire - Sunday, May 2, 2004 - link
AtaStrumf,The drive you are refering to is Seagate's 120gig Barracuda V. The Barracuda V based drives are know to run hot. The Hard drive I am speaking about is from Seagate's 7200.7 series. The 7200.7 series are one of the coolest running drives on the market.
I know about vowing never to buy another XXXX brand drive again. After returning near 40+ drives to WD I was almost ready to count them out.
But I gave them another chance by purchasing a 74gig Raptor, and I couldn t be more pleased with it. For now I will stay away from WD normal drives untill they fix them.
Please be a little more specific next time about what hard drive model you had bad experiances with.
Mackintire
Evan Lieb - Sunday, May 2, 2004 - link
TrogdorJW, good call, we’ll include an Alternative for the case next time around. We really don’t get much responses for cases, as everyone has their own priority. Look is very subjective with a case, something we don’t have to worry about with HDDs, CPUs, etc.Ducsauce, try Newegg.com.
Mackintire, most user’s experiences are different. Take a look at SR.com’s database of user reviews on WD, Seagate, etc. HDDs. You’re exaggerating the tangible differences in performance as well.
TrueWisdom, you, like Mackintire, are vastly overemphasizing the real world difference between a Raptor and a JB drive in single user desktop scenarios. Not everyone is going to notice the difference in performance, and certainly not enough to justify a $125+ price delta.
Nigham, depends what type of RAID array you’re referring to, not to mention the fact that you have to buy a second HDD. And your performance will increase anyway with two HDDs not in RAID, anyway.
n4v3k, a 480W PSU is not mandatory, we’ve tried lower wattage PSUs with a 6800 Ultra.
00aStrOgUy00, we’ve tested both speaker systems plenty, and probably more than you have. ;) Also, the whine does not apply to all WD drives, notice we didn’t say ALL drives have this problem (really, no one besides WD truly knows what percentage of their drives whine). Then again, many users will care less with the case we recommended, since it effectively funnels the noise. The Barracuda’s are quieter, but are not faster (and if they were in select scenarios, it isn’t noticeable in the real world), and there’s no hard data that says Barracudas are more reliable than Caviars either. Our experience says both are about the same reliability-wise.
As for those recommending an FX-53 or dual Raptors in RAID….this isn’t a dream system, this is a high end system. We clearly explained why we didn’t want to recommend A64 FX or P4EE processors, and why we didn’t want to recommend a Raptor. They are not bad choices, just prohibitively expensive for the small benefit in real world. And of course, the accepted definition of “High End” has never been “Fastest hardware on the planet without regard for price or reason”. :)
AtaStrumf - Sunday, May 2, 2004 - link
I tested a Seagate 120 GB SATA drive a long time ago and vouched never to buy one! Why? Because the damn thing got so hot I could fry eggs on it!!! The HSF on an Athlon XP with its fan off is the ONLY thing in a PC that gets hotter than that drive. I really don't see where you get off saying it runs cooler than a 120 GB WD.00aStrOgUy00 - Sunday, May 2, 2004 - link
I also forgot to mention, you said the hard drive has an infamous whine. Why recommend it if you know it has this problem?