Overclocking Buyer's Guide - August 2004
by Wesley Fink on July 27, 2004 11:24 AM EST- Posted in
- Guides
CPU and Motherboard: VALUE OC Recommendations
CPU: Intel Pentium 4 2.8C 800MHz FSB Northwood (512K L2 cache)Motherboard: ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe (875P chipset)
Price: CPU - $175 shipped (Retail). Motherboard - $172 shipped
Choosing an Intel processor these days can be very confusing, as there are so many flavors available. Because the Intel processors are multiplier locked, we like the 2.8 speed for overclocking. The 14 multiplier is realistic for reaching the best overclocks that you will likely achieve with a Pentium 4. The question becomes, "which 2.8?" The 2.8A is based on the Prescott core, but is without Hyperthreading and runs with a 21 multiplier at a 533 FSB. While we have seen reports of these CPUs reaching 180 to 190 overclocks (3.78GHz to 4.0GHz), we are still left with the diminishing returns of a high multiplier, a FSB below 800, and no Hyperthreading. If the 2.8A were cheaper than the 2.8E or C, we could easily recommend it, but at about the same price, we would choose an 800FSB 2.8.
With the Prescott 2.8E at the same price as the Northwood 2.8C, the 2.8C is an easy choice unless you have to have the highest FSB for bragging rights. On Socket 478, Northwood performs better than Prescott, and you will also likely find that the overclocked Northwood, which will top out about 3.4 to 3.7GHz, is still a better performer than the overclocked Prescott on the 875 chipset and Socket 478. The 2.8C runs at 800MHz FSB with a 14X multiplier. This multiplier should allow you to squeeze everything from the Northwood Pentium 4 that you can get. 3.7GHz would require a doable 265 Clock frequency, and the more likely 3.5GHz can be achieved at 250FSB, which is DDR500 at 1:1 memory.
It's been several months since we did some serious overclocking with a Northwood chip, but reports are that recent Northwoods are overclocking very well. Our Evan Lieb reached 3.4GHz with default 1.525 voltage, with a 2.8C on a P4C800-E motherboard. With voltage cranked to 1.65V, he reached a very stable 3.59GHz, which proved its stability by running 8 hours+ looping Prime95 and SPECviewperf 7.1.1 programs. Chips and performance do vary and overclocking is never guaranteed, but the performance that we have seen with off-the-shelf 2.8C processors suggest that you can and should be able to reach the highest levels of Northwood performance with a 2.8C and a motherboard that overclocks very well.
When all is said and done, the P4C800-E Deluxe has proven itself to be the premier Pentium 4 motherboard for overclockers. This motherboard has reached 290+ in our DDR memory test bed, and we have seen 270MHz-280MHz FSB using just basic retail Intel cooling with a good 2.4C processor. With a 2.8C processor, you should be able to run fast memory at 1:1 to the fastest processor speed that you can reach. You also have the option of running fast DDR400 memory at 2-2-2 timings, at a lower ratio, which is often just as fast as higher memory speeds at higher latencies. With all things being equal, higher memory speed is faster, but higher memory speed often requires higher latencies. Which is better depends on how aggressive your timings can be at the highest memory speed.
However you cut it, though, the ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe offers everything an overclocker could want: plenty of room for FSB overclocking, 2.85V max VDIMM, 1.95V max Vcore, and features like CSA Gigabit LAN, SATA and IDE RAID, IEEE 1394 FireWire, etc. This motherboard is absolutely packed with just about every feature that a high end user and overclocker could need.
Listed below is part of our RealTime pricing engine, which lists the lowest prices available on Intel motherboards from many different reputable vendors:
If you cannot find the lowest prices on the products that we've recommended on this page, it's because we don't list some of them in our RealTime pricing engine. Until we do, we suggest that you do an independent search online at the various vendors' web sites. Just pick and choose where you want to buy your products by looking for a vendor located under the "Vendor" heading.
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vaeren - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - link
Well I decided to try the EVGA card for 389 from www.buyxg.com Went to the site, lo and behold the card is stated there at 389. I go to buy it and it rings up 409. Ok, so I see it's backordered and I send them an e-mail basically asking them to honor the homepage. They essentially tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about and the page is now fixed. I don't think I'd recommend them in the future as an accurate price guideline. Granted Anandtech doesn't guarentee prices, but I think poor business practices should be addressed.PrinceGaz - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - link
Just a slight error in the article regarding the Mobile XP 2500+"However, the FSB speeds and multiplier are also a fortunate accident on the 2500+, since 11X is also the same multiplier as the top 3200+ Athlon XP. Since the 2500+ runs at 166 FSB, 3200+ performance is often as easy as setting the FSB to 200 from the default 166. Most, but not all, 2500+ can easily reach 3200+ speeds. The 2600+ mobile also looks even more promising as an overclocker, though we have not yet tested it. With specifications of the same 45 watt power consumption, a 12 multiplier, and 166FSB, it is hard not to be tempted when it is less than $10 more than a 2500+."
The desktop version of the 2500+ does run at 166*11 (1833 MHz), but the Mobile version has a 133FSB default. Thats not a problem because as you say in the article, they are unlocked so you can set the FSB and multiplier to whatever you like. But you will need to lower the multiplier with the Mobile 2500+ to run it as a 3200+.
The Mobile 2600+ is probably a much better choice because it has a much higher default speed than you'd expect,
Desktop 2500+ 166*11 = 1833 MHz
Desktop 2600+ 166*11.5 = 1917 MHz
Mobile 2500+ 133*14 = 1867 MHz (1.45V)
Mobile 2600+ 133*15 = 2000 MHz (1.45V)
the Mobile versions of both chips have a slightly higher clock speed than the desktop versions to compensate for the lower default FSB. In particular the Mobile 2600+ is a whole 133MHz faster than the Mobile 2500+ to compensate for the ever diminishing returns of higher multipliers.
For an overclocker that means the Mobile 2600+ is an unlocked chip that is guaranteed to run easily at 2GHz while still at 1.45V. That pretty much guarantees it will reach 2.3GHz, and maybe as much as 2.5GHz at the desktop 1.65V. And you can always give it a little extra juice if that isn't enough :)
roostercrows - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - link
#2 bluedarti did some research about a month ago on the synthetic diamond heatsinks and it seems they have been used for many decades (40+ years)."Swans" research was extremely helpful. i would like to know what material you are coating the diamonds on and also if you are infiltrating the diamonds with copper etc,(if you are makeing one you know what i mean). i have one ordered using tungsten and 6%cobalt as the base metal, 1mm to 1.5mm thick. i'm glad to hear someone else is playing around with this. btw, the specs that i looked at were 7x better than silver, using single crystal. also, what size are you using and are you using an existing product or are you starting from scratch? have fun.
Pathogen03 - Thursday, July 29, 2004 - link
I like the writting style and thought processes behind the review.. It definetly was the most fun, and most detailed one ive seen.BUT,
Your Recommendations are shaky at best. When you argued the 2500+ over the 2600+ for the mobile chip, it made sense, but the inclusion of the FX-53 over an Athlon64 just completely eludes me.. Id suggest you talk to some people on the forums before you do your next one, to doublecheck you have all of the current overclocking trends down. Oh, and a true overclocker would never even CONSIDER a Speeze heatsink.. If you want to talk about the article I can try to give you my opinion, you have my name in the forums just PM me.
TrogdorJW - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
I have to say that this is by far the best of ANY of the guides that you and Evan have put together for Anandtech, Wesley. Perhaps it's the inclusion of four system options (with prices for all four, even!), or maybe it's just that I'm an overclocker at heart? Anyway, I'm not too sure about the FX-53 on the performance end, as it's just way too expensive, but that's about my only complaint. You mention the 3500+, and for the price, I would think that's the way to go.I have to agree with the suggestion of just making suggestions for the five basic platforms, though. I mean, you already have done that, with the exception of the socket 754 system. Add in a motherboard (MSI K8N Neo Platinum?) and CPU (3200+ 1 MB?), and you're pretty much done.
Anyway, great job! I'm seriously looking at a socket 754 overclocking setup in the near future, unless someone can convince me that the extra $120 for the 3500+ over the 3200+ (not to mention the motherboard probably costing ~$40 more for S939) is worthwhile. Any takers, or should I just go with a 3200+? I won't be buying for at least another month, Wesley, so you can address my needs in your next OC guide! :)
Wesley Fink - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
MSI just sent the following reply to our request for information about when the K8N Neo2 would be available for purchase by our readers:"I am sorry for this kind of situation and inconvenience. My first shipment of K8N Neo2 will be this coming Tue. (Aug 3rd). Most on-line etailers (newegg, ziproomfly, .......) will post the board on Wed. or Thu to allow customers to buy it.
We will also modify the product page from "available soon" to "first week of AUG." http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_spec.asp?mode..."
Parc - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
Great article as always. These are my favorite because it is exactly what I look to your website for the best of the hardware out. Key word out. The MSI board is not out and now had been delayed to somewhere around August 9. By August 9 the board will probably be delayed again. Why do you keep putting a board up that no one can get? The 6800s are hard to get but can be gotten . This just a suggestion. Still great article except board.Wesley Fink - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
The Coolermaster CM stacker is not an all-Aluminum case, but a mixture of 1.0 mm steel plate for strength and Aluminum alloy. The description has been corrected in the article.Anemone - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
Agreed Shinei...I'm looking at the 3700 EB (3-3-2-8) and then at the new 4000 Rev 2 (2.5-3-3-?) and curious how they compare. Had a chance to look over the new 4000 Rev 2 yet Wesley?
Loved this article totally - as well as the 939 reviews. OC'ing on the new 925X boards has a host of connected issues with pci-e and sata, so bye bye Intel...
Another great AT article for sure
Shinei - Wednesday, July 28, 2004 - link
T8000 has apparently never read any of the Socket 939 benchmarks AT did, or he'd know that the AFX's stomp out Intel at media encoding (along with just about everything else). Anyway, moving on from Trollville.I agree about the 3500+ being the better price/performance part over the FX53. Of course, I don't own one, so I can't comment on performance, but based on AT's results, it looks like a promising component...