Weekly Buyer's Guide: Mid-Range System - June 2004
by Evan Lieb on June 18, 2004 9:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Guides
Memory
Recommendation: 2 X 256MB OCZ PC3500 EL (Enhanced Latency) CAS2.0Price: $120 shipped
We've talked about OCZ's troubled past and history in detail before, but thankfully, those issues have been resolved and OCZ is finally able to bring great memory to market, and has been doing so for over a year now. With that said, OCZ has had tremendous success with their EL series of modules for a reason: great price/performance ratio. At only slightly more than the Kingston ValueRAM that we recommended two months before, you get lower CAS timings (CAS 2-2-3-6 1T) with OCZ EL modules instead of high CAS timings (CAS 3-3-3 4T) with the cheaper no-name modules. Lower CAS timings along with the EL series' overclocking capability translates into better performance for a great price. Remember, this is PC3500; you can run it at DDR433.
Recommendation: 2 X 512MB Mushkin PC3500 Level One Dual Pack (CAS2)
Price: $306 shipped
While we have been using OCZ's Platinum modules as the standard for a majority of AnandTech's testbeds, we have also been using Mushkin Level One memory in conjunction with the OCZ. Unfortunately, it is getting harder and harder to find dual packs nowadays, but Mushkin Level One Dual Packs are available at large vendors like Axion and Newegg, so they're still out there. We've been able to do lots of testing with these specific PC3500 modules and they indeed run stably at PC3500 (433MHz DDR) on many currently available motherboards. There are many PC3500 modules that aren't capable of reliable DDR433 speeds on popular motherboards, so be wary. But motherboards such as the MSI K8N Neo Platinum and ASUS P4P800 Deluxe will run these modules very well, so we suggest that you take a look at them when purchasing your motherboard. However, don't get confused. PC3500 is not an officially sanctioned JEDEC spec, and therefore there are no motherboards on the market which can claim that they officially support PC3500 speeds. PC3500 is quite easily attainable with modern motherboards, but just be aware that PC3200, not PC3500, is the highest speed that your motherboard manufacturer will officially support under warranty.
Video
Recommendation: 128MB Sapphire Radeon 9600 Pro, DVI, TV-outPrice: $126 shipped
Ever since the release of the ATI R300 cores and their later iterations, ATI has either led or has had a clear lead over NVIDIA in terms of performance and price. The same is still true of ATI at the moment, 20+ months since the release and availability of R300 core video cards. That's why, today, we highly recommend purchasing a 9600 Pro for your mid-range system, as it offers great DX8 and good DX9 performance for the price. To put it simply, the 9600 Pro is the best bang-for-the-buck video card on the market. Sapphire makes a great 9600 Pro for just $126 or so shipped; the additions of DVI and TV-out for this price are unique, and overall, a great deal. 2D IQ quality is excellent, up to 1600x1200 desktop resolutions with the right monitor, essentially on par with retail ATI versions of the 9600 Pro. As previously mentioned, 3D performance is excellent in DX8 games and good in DX9 games, and 128MB of memory will be plenty until more intense DX9 games are released later this year and next year. We can also attest to the fact that these cards have been known to overclock extremely well, and usually come with 3.3ns Samsung memory chips.
Of course, if you're not a gamer or don't plan on playing games more than once a year, or ever, a 9600 Pro would be a pointless purchase. We would instead suggest the ATI Radeon 9200SE that we recommended in last week's Entry Level Guide, which goes for about $40 shipped online currently. The 9200SE provides the excellent 2D quality non-gamers need, along with reliable drivers, great online ATI customer support, and up to DX8.1 support for future Microsoft operating systems. You could always opt for the cheapest of cheap ATI cards in the Radeon 7000, but you won't be getting DX8 support, which should be the bare minimum for computer systems that plan to be used beyond the next 18-24 months, when the next operating system's release will necessitate DX8 of some form for smooth operation.
Alternative: 128MB ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, DVI, TV-out
Price: $204 shipped
ATI's 9800 Pro has been rapidly declining in price for the last several months, and over the last two months has stabilized around the $200 mark. Even with the introduction of ATI's next generation X800 GPU, we don't see the 9800 Pro dropping more than a few more dollars in retail from where it stands now for the foreseeable future. ATI's soon-to-be widely available X800 GPU and the 9800 Pro's lower price are precisely why we believe that the 9800 Pro is a perfect alternative to the 9600 Pro (or even 9700 Pro) for your mid-range system. It offers good performance for tomorrow's games and great performance for the vast majority of today's games. The 128MB memory chips at their rated 3.3ns is standard these days and should fit the needs of a mid-range user. Thankfully, 2D IQ is still superb with high end retail ATI video cards like the 9800 Pro, so non-gamers have nothing to worry about in that department.
Listed below is part of our RealTime pricing engine, which lists the lowest prices available on ATI video cards from many different reputable vendors:
If you cannot find the lowest prices on the products that we've recommended on this page, it's because we don't list some of them in our RealTime pricing engine. Until we do, we suggest that you do an independent search online at the various vendors' web sites. Just pick and choose where you want to buy your products by looking for a vendor located under the "Vendor" heading.
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SKiller - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
"Bottom Line $1592Ouch... a little expensive for a mid-range system, isn't it?"
How so? Most people I know who have what could be considered a high-end system, have at least $2k worth of components (usually more). $1600 is well within what could be considered mid-range.
TrogdorJW - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
If you keep everything but the CL2 RAM recomendation, you could further reduce the price to under $1000. On the "upgraded" version, going with the OCZ 3500 and a more moderate Antec SLK3700-BQE case would drop the price under $1500, and the monitor and speaker upgrades could probably also go to get you a very good gaming system for $1265. In case anyone out there wanted a suggestion from me on that point. :)TrogdorJW - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
And since you keep neglecting to put this in the guide, I'll keep posting it here. The Alternative system summary:P4 3.0C $224
Asus P4P800-E Deluxe $112
2x512 Mushkin Level One RAM $306
128MB Radeon 9800 Pro $204
NEC 19" Diamondtron $326
Kingwin K11 plus 360W PSU $116
Onboard sound $0
Logitech Z-5300 $147
Onboard Gigabit Ethernet $0
Western Digital 1200JB (120GB) $87
NuTech DVD+RW $70
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Bottom Line $1592
Ouch... a little expensive for a mid-range system, isn't it? And since the CPU/motherboard could really still go either way, it's worth mentioning that the alternative system with the Athlon 64 2800+ would cost $15 less: $1577.
TrogdorJW - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
You made some really great improvements in a lot of areas with this version of the guide - congratulations! I like the mention of the WD whine in the hard drive section, as well as the suggestion of upgrading to 1 GB. Still, the memory choices are really quite odd, as the above posts agree.$120 for two 256 MB DIMMs on a single-channel RAM setup? WTF? How will the vaunted 64-bit of Athlon 64 CPUs be of any real use when you've filled two of your three DIMM slots and only have half a gig of RAM? (64-bit isn't all that great right now, and I don't think it will be for at least another year.) Once 512 MB DIMM would have been better, or even two 512 MB Mushkin 2.5-4-4-8 DIMMs for only $156.
As for the recommended 1 GB of Mushkin on the alternative list, that's great RAM - I have it in one of my systems. I also paid $230 for it back in February and wouldn't dream of spending $306 on it now! You could get 1GB of PC4000 RAM for that prices - granted, not low timings, but if you're thinking of overclocking a P4, you would want better RAM than PC3500. I would suggest OCZ's PC4000 as the alternative for P4 systems at that price: http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?desc...
For the Athlon 64, getting PC4000 RAM is overkill, as good PC3500 will likely perform just as well if not better. In that case, on the high-end, the Mushkin Level One is a nice pick. But that's really too expensive for any mid-range system, so why not stick with PC3500 but get lower timings while knocking off $76? http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?desc...
abravo01 - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
Well, I was playing my klipsch promedia 5.1 on a sb live 5.1. Just got an audigy2 upon reading your may high-end guide and the difference is incredible: now I am truly in love with my sound!Thanks for the information.
glennpratt - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
Well I would disagree... I prefer the higher end Logitechs over Creative no matter what the material. And the price makes me forget about Klipsch.GokieKS - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
"Why do they always recommend Creative speakers for "audiophiles"? Any "audiophile" would know that they are pure crap and would either use an HT setup with their PC or some Klipsch Ultra 5.1s."Most of them are, but the SoundWorks MegaWorks/GigaWorks speakers are excellent, and are really a better choice for music (as opposed to gaming/movies) than Logitech and Klipsch's high-end offerings.
~KS
WarmAndSCSI - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
Why do they always recommend Creative speakers for "audiophiles"? Any "audiophile" would know that they are pure crap and would either use an HT setup with their PC or some Klipsch Ultra 5.1s.PrinceGaz - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
Overall a very good recommendation and in line with what I'd go along with today for my next system, but with two important differences.Memory. A gigabyte is a must for this class of system but theres no way I'd spend over $300 on those 2x512MB PC3500 CAS2 sticks, when you could get some PC3200 CAS2.5 for little over half the price. The amount saved would be more than enough to up the processor from an A64 2800+ to a 3200+, giving you performance out the box equivalent to a decent overclock of the 2800+ with low latency memory. And you'll still have some left over to spend elsewhere.
Hard Drive. The most GB/$ now lies in the 160GB to 200GB region, and 200GB SATA drives are only $129 from Maxtor and WD which is a reasonable price component to include in this kind of system (especially if you had been considering spending over $300 on memory). The Maxtor drive is the obvious choice as it has no whine thanks to its fluid-bearings, is of similar speed to the WD, and comes with a three year warranty. As to whether you need 200GB, its always nice to have the extra space and sooner or later you'll probably be glad of it. In the meantime the drive will be faster as all the data is towards the outside keeping seek-times short and transfer-rates high. The rest of the money saved on the memory will pretty much cover the additional cost of a 200GB drive over an 80GB one.
So for the same cost, you could stick an A64 3200+ in and a 200GB drive, just by using 2x512MB PC3200 CAS2.5 modules instead of PC3500 CAS2. It may not have the same overclocking headroom, but this isn't the overclocking system guide anyway. And a larger (or faster if only partially used) hard-drive is always nice.
Apart from those two very minor quibbles, an excellent article in a series which always makes me consider alternatives for my next box.
zyzzix - Friday, June 18, 2004 - link
Excellent article, Evan. My question is about the strength of the MSI mobo recommendation. While it's no doubt feature packed, the ABIT/VIA Pro offers an interesting alternative for OCers. Curious that some high profile names like Abit and Asus have passed on the 250, to date.