Weekly Buyer's Guide: Mid-Range System - March 2004
by Evan Lieb on March 24, 2004 2:27 PM EST- Posted in
- Guides
Memory
Recommendation: 2 X 256MB Mushkin Basic Green PC3200 (CAS2.5)Price: $90 shipped ($45 per module)
Mushkin, like Corsair, also makes well performing, low cost, and reliable PC3200 memory. Mushkin calls these PC3200 modules their "Basic Green" series, whereas their higher end modules may have names such as "Level One" or "Level II". Overall, the performance difference between "high end" PC3200 and "low end" PC3200 (mostly determined by their CL rating, among other memory latency timings) is very small, and certainly not noticeable enough to warrant the extra cost of higher end PC3200 modules, or even PC3500 and PC3700 modules (for overclockers).
Alternative: 2 X 256MB Mushkin PC3500 Level One Dual Pack (CAS2)
Price: $138 shipped (shipped together in same package)
We've recommended Mushkin's Level One memory in other Buyer's Guides due to its great performance, overclockability, and price, and that is exactly why we are recommending it in this Buyer's Guide today. However, we are recommending the 256MB versions instead of the 512MB versions that we had recommended before because this Buyer's Guide concentrates on mid-range systems where 1GB of memory (2 X 512MB) is usually overkill and where users are still fairly sensitive to price. In comparison to the recommended Basic Green modules above, a $48 price premium doesn't get you a whole lot more; basically, these modules give you an extra 33MHz (433MHz versus 400MHz) in speed and a lower latency (CAS 2-3-3 instead of CAS 2.5-4-4). You will experience a boost in speed, without any doubt, but how much depends on what programs you use. If you game a lot, the extra clock frequency and lower latencies of the Level One modules will definitely be useful. If not, you will probably not notice any difference in performance whatsoever.
Video
Recommendation: 128MB PowerColor Radeon 9600 Pro, DVI, TV-outPrice: $129 shipped
Ever since the release of the ATI R300 cores and their later iterations, ATI has either led or has had a clear lead over NVIDIA in terms of performance and price. The same is still true of ATI at the moment, a whole 18 months since the release and availability of R300 core video cards. That's why, today, we highly recommend purchasing a 9600 Pro for your mid-range system, as it offers great DX8 and good DX9 performance for the price. To put it simply, the 9600 Pro is the best bang-for-the-buck video card on the market. PowerColor makes a nice 9600 Pro for just $129 or so shipped; the additions of DVI and TV-out for this price are unique, and overall a great deal. 2D IQ quality is excellent, up to 1600x1200 desktop resolutions with the right monitor, essentially on par with retail ATI versions of the 9600 Pro. As previously mentioned, 3D performance is excellent in DX8 games and good in DX9 games, and 128MB of memory will be plenty until more intense DX9 games are released later this year and next year.
Of course, if you're not a gamer or don't plan on playing games more than once a year, or ever, a 9600 Pro would be a pointless purchase. We would instead suggest the ATI Radeon 9200SE that we recommended last week, which goes for about $40 shipped online currently. The 9200SE provides the excellent 2D quality non-gamers need, along with reliable drivers, great online ATI customer support, and up to DX8.1 support for future Microsoft operating systems. You could always opt for the cheapest of cheap ATI cards in the Radeon 7000, but you won't be getting DX8 support, which should be the bare minimum for computer systems that plan to be used beyond the next 18-24 months, when the next operating systems release will necessitate DX8 of some form for smooth operation.
Alternative: 128MB PowerColor Radeon 9700 Pro, DVI, TV-out
Price: $183 shipped
Another video card that we suggest taking a close look at is the now 18-month old 9700 Pro, but still a great card to this day. It can be found at most popular online retailers for about $190 shipped, and some other vendors for a bit less. The 9600 Pro and 9700 Pro offer basically the same 2D IQ quality if you're comparing the same manufacturers (PowerColor in our cases). The defining difference is the 9700 Pro's gaming performance, which is about 35% faster in most popular 3D games, like Unreal Tournament 2003 for example. The $53 price premium for a 9700 Pro over a 9600 Pro is well worth it for DX8 and most DX9 games, especially at higher resolutions like 1280x1024 and 1600x1200. Otherwise, however, the 9700 Pro provides no other describable advantages over a 9600 Pro.
One final word of advice: do not purchase 9800SE video cards. They perform on par or, in most cases, slower than a 9600 Pro in 3D games and cost closer to a 9700 Pro. Do not be fooled - a 9800SE performs nothing like a full-blown 8 pipe 256 bit (memory interface) 9800 Pro.
Listed below is part of our RealTime pricing engine, which lists the lowest prices available on ATI video cards from many different reputable vendors:
If you cannot find the lowest prices on the products that we've recommended on this page, it's because we don't list some of them in our RealTime pricing engine. Until we do, we suggest that you do an independent search online at the various vendors' web sites. Just pick and choose where you want to buy your products by looking for a vendor located under the "Vendor" heading.
22 Comments
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reep - Thursday, March 25, 2004 - link
i would save ~50$ by going for the 2500+ instead of the 2800+ - the difference in performance is hardly worth it. instead, that money could be brought to much better use by spending it on 2x512mb of ram.NeoGodless - Thursday, March 25, 2004 - link
I agree with #10... this is really the mid range buyers guide. In addition, the dual channel motherboards I've had experience with simply need at least memory slots filled to enable dual channel, and adding additional memory does not disable it.magratton - Thursday, March 25, 2004 - link
I think many of you are missing the point here. If you want to do the AXPM 2500 and overclock it then that is the "Overclockers" Guide. This guide is for folks who don't know much (a little more than the average joe per se) and want a good system for their needs. To that end these recommendations are pretty decent to me and will certainly make the average gamer around town looking to save a few bucks plenty happy for a while. Either way, people will be much happier with the cost and effectiveness of this system in the long run than the stuff they can pick up at their local (and online) mass-market dealer.As to the TogdorJW's comments on RAM, yes, 512MB is really the MINIMUM nowadays, and some note should be given that if you are using this for gaming spending a few more dollars to get to 1GB RAM should be looked into.
Myrandex - Thursday, March 25, 2004 - link
I would get the <$145 Radein 9800se 256bit 128MB from newegg and softmod it to a full blown 9800, and ditto with previous posts about the 2500+ CPUs instead of the 2800, and on the alternative choice I would put the new Athlon64 2800+ instead of that P4.Jason
mlsaxx - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
TrogdorJW - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
Oh, one other thing. I know this is the mid-range, and an extra $100 on RAM is a lot of money. However, it really has to be recommended for anyone that does a lot of gaming, especially on the Athlon XP system. Since you lose dual-channel if you occupy all three memory slots, the 512 MB configurations you recommend are going to be lower performing if they are later upgraded. (I would love for you to do some benchmarks on this, incidentally!) This isn't a real problem for the P4 alternative, since you can upgrade to 4x256 for 1 GB of RAM when it suits you.Anyway, for gamers looking at spending the extra money on the Radeon 9700 Pro graphics card, they really need to be aware of how many games are starting to break the 512 MB threshhold. I have 1 GB of RAM and a Ti4200 graphics card, and Battlefield: Vietnam and UT2K4 both run perfectly fine for me at 1024x768 and moderate detail. Others running faster graphics cards (9800 Pro) with 512 MB of RAM are posting a lot of complaints in the BF:V and UT2K4 forums. It might bump the price up another $100, but spending $90 on 2x256 MB of RAM for an Athlon XP and then ditching that to go up to 2x512 in a few months would not be cool.
TrogdorJW - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
Sounds like the new Athlon 64 2800+ will probably become the alternative CPU/mobo next time the mid-range system comes around. Not sure about the longevity of that solution, but then, nothing lasts forever. Highly mature and stable PCI/AGP is probably better than version 1.0 PCIe and DDR2 for the next 18 months.For the rest, this is the mid-range system *without* overclocking. In that segment, the 2800+ is a pretty good choice, although the 2600+ is also an option. Can't complain too much about the choices, although I'm certainly itching to see what sort of overclocks can be achieved with the new A64 2800+. :)
PrinceGaz - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
You could pay more for an XP3000+, or spend just $80 on an XP2500+ and overclock it a bit but thats not what I'd get.I'd spend $95 on an XP-M 2500+ (still saving over twenty dollars compared to the recommended XP2800+), set the voltage to the normal 1.65V of an XP2500+ (non-mobile), set the FSB to 200MHz and the multiplier to 11, and bingo -- you've got an XP3200+ :)
gofor55 - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
Unless you have RAID 0 test results on the ITE based GigaRAID onboard controller, you need to STOP touting this feature. I own a 7N400 Pro 2 and the GigaRAID performance is terrible. It's even a crummy when used as an IDE interface. I had to disable it and add a RocketRAID controller.wassup4u2 - Wednesday, March 24, 2004 - link
Why the AXP 2800+ instead of the 2500+? The 2500 is tons cheaper ($81 retail, shipped on newegg), and is only 250MHz slower. It still offers the 333MHz FSB and 512Kb L2 cache. Plus, it's very easily overclockable to the 2.08GHz that the 2800+ offers, even with the retail cooler. Get a better cooler and, presto, you can have yourself a nice little $81 Athlon XP 3200+.